Sloopy Steering

recently bought a 72 1110 , Body in great shape but concerned about a lot of play in steering. has real worn bias tires on it but seems like it was all over road the few miles i drove it...what should i be checking/looking for?
Thanks for any advise you can give me

I have a lot of slop in my steering too and haven't had a chance to lock down what it is. First thing I would look at is the really simple stuff. You said the tires are worn...a new set of tires, balanced wheels, alignment, etc can factor into what you're seeing but I don't know if they'd be the root cause.

Are your wheels on snug? The previous owner of my scout II had cross threaded the lug nuts on the wheels and then lock tited them in place...so driving down the road my wheels weren't tight against the hub causing a ton of damage. This is something I should've looked at closer before buying but it didn't occur to me anybody would do something so dumb.

Last thing I'd suggest, other than the steering assembly itself of course, is your suspension bushings may be shot.

Anybody out there feel free to correct any mistakes I may have posted or give further insight. I just put down my 2 cents on the matter to bump the thread since it hasn't been commented on in over a month.

As above.
Also, have someone turn the steering wheel back and forth while you watch the rag joint and the input and output shafts on the steering box for slop.

There is an adjustment on the steering box. Look for a 5/8 or 11/16 nut usually on the side of the box. It is on a shaft that usually has as screwdriver slot in it. Raise your front end off the ground. Center the wheels. Hold the center shaft while you break loose the nut. Turn the screw in to some resistance. Temporarily tighten the lock nut. Check for play again. If the adjustment is too tight, steering will be stiff at center. If so, back off a little.

blueblur1984 said:

The previous owner of my scout II had cross threaded the lug nuts on the wheels and then lock tited them in place...

Click to expand...

Cross threading beats lock tite.

1. Rag joint bad? Replace with borgeson U joint.
2. Steering box frame bolts tight? (3) A little slop here translates into a lot of slop on the road.
3. Suspension bushings.
4. Add caster shims.

I didn't see wheel bearing mentioned. Check them and ball joints too.

Doc Stewart said:

... There is an adjustment on the steering box. Look for a 5/8 or 11/16 nut usually on the side of the box. It is on a shaft that usually has as screwdriver slot in it. Raise your front end off the ground. Center the wheels...

Click to expand...

---As Doc Stewart mentioned here, but in addition, the correct way is to disconnect the drag link as well. As long as I have dealt with the lash in any Saginaw box, the correct way was just the same as any adjustment. All adjustments are made off-vehicle, so you must, as the books say, remove all preload. Which means pulling the drag link. Make it seem like it is off vehicle. While true final adjustment is made with the steering wheel connected and the gearbox mounted, note that the drag link is not! Also note that a dial indicator and lb-in torque wrench are also used. Inch pound that is, which means there is little room for mistake/carelessness.

---Full droop on the axle, if anything, causes more preload due to incorrect drag link angle/steering latitude.

---Use a puller if you are going to adjust, not a pickel fork.

~edit~

---As mentioned, the spring eye bushings would be a good place to start. Another would be the tire sizes themself. It seems common practice to sell a vehicle with tires other than the ones just installed... lol. If this is the case (like it was when I bought StoneThrower), the tires might be the same size, but different brands, making different overall diameters. I have seen as much as 1" difference between two 235/75 R16s just because they were different brand (no, not different rim). Add to that one tire with different tread depth as well as one tire of a different size and the vehicle could be so squirly it wouldn't climb a snowy paved road, worse in 4WD and have to be backed up the hill to get it to the driveway. Yes, talking from experience there. It was a fun ride.

---Does it have a working parking brake? If not, are all cables in tact? If not, are the "cables" puddled correctly where they were cut, to keep tension for the parking brake lever behind the drums? Is one puddled but the other sucked into the cable sleeve? Could be one side having drag or one caliper locked up. While checking it all out, clean, inspect repack/replace the wheel bearings. That is on the top of my list when it comes to a newly purchased vehicle. Especially IHs cause they're tanks, off of which I would not want to lose a tire.

---Bad shocks, shifted sping pack, broken spring center pin, worn/sagging springs, old spring u-bolts, bent frame, missing service manual? Heh heh heh, had to throw that in. The Service manual for the Scouts shows frame diagram and how to measure for straightness.

blueblur1984 said:

... The previous owner of my scout II had cross threaded the lug nuts on the wheels and then lock tited them in place...so driving down the road my wheels weren't tight against the hub causing a ton of damage. This is something I should've looked at closer before buying but it didn't occur to me anybody would do something so dumb...

Click to expand...

---Now don't blame the PO. Coulda easily been a tire tucas/toush-nician that used "cutsie" colored ink to show their company worked on the vehicle last (never understood that), and impacted the lug nuts on like a moron, stripping the lugs after the third tire rotation and being so fearful of losing his job for stripping out the "umpteen" set* that month, so he never said anything to the shop manager... lol. Dumb things don't just happen in back yards or alleys!

Doc/Thomas

Is there anyway you could either provide a torque spec or elaborate on tight in the center? I searched around a while ago for tips and found more jabs than tips.

One thing that was reco'd to me was to check for cracks in the front frame corners. A little extra give here would go/slop a long ways.

I put a straight steer and dampened borgeson on mine to improve my slop. It's improved about 70% of the way.

---Will check the manuals for IH specs for you.

Thomas said:

---Will check the manuals for IH specs for you. Hang on sloopy.

Click to expand...

Please post which one it's in if you do.

Is this thing a 2wd or a 4wd?? That could change things. I smell kingpins. IH

---Need to know if it's PS or MS if you need to know specs. If you can find a model number or brand name, it would serve great as well.


usugarbage

---From my Scout service manual, the Gemmer Steering Gearbox (model #S-8 code #05008) is 2-8 lb-in and the Saginaw Power Steering Gearbox (model #S-281/S-282 code #05281/05282) is 4-8 lb-in measured on the output shaft.

---Wheels/worm gear at approximate center. Drop pitman arm or drag link (I prefer drag link). Back the lock nut off. Back the adjuster off 1/4 turn. Apply inch pound torque wrench to output shaft/steering wheel. Adjust a hair, turn slow with torque wrench (dial indicator should be used to show how many degrees you are walking out and return to center if you reach "maximum" degrees). Adjust a hair. Turn slow. Adjust a hair. Turn slow... etc., etc., etc., until you acquire the correct drag 2-8 or 4-8. Or, rather than getting in and out and "adjust a hair", have a trusted helper outside adjusting while you achieve the correct drag.

---CTS-2313 for Scout II XLC (`78-`80). Might not be the same as yours but model numbers & codes supplied. BUT! I did get the Mitchell Vintage Manuals on disc prior to my controller/cable going out, preventing me from installing late-model. Let me check that and see what info it contains.

. . .... as well as allowing those with the 1110 (travelall?) books to chime in.

---Thank you for asking!

Thomas is much more technical than I. My training /experience is all under a shade tree....

With your accomplice at the wheel, tighten the adjuster a bit at a time until he feels a definite friction as the wheel passes center then back the adjuster out until that feel is gone. Not the most technical approach but it is functional.

Doc Stewart said:

Thomas is much more technical than I. My training /experience is all under a shade tree....

With your accomplice at the wheel, tighten the adjuster a bit at a time until he feels a definite friction as the wheel passes center then back the adjuster out until that feel is gone. Not the most technical approach but it is functional.

Click to expand...

---All good, I'm more paranoid than trusting in my abilities... lol. I use to do it the same way and I have been seen catching shade under the tree myself, although... I always preferred the garage that was in the alley. Better traffic and at times, private.

---Problem is, 2-8 lb-in isn't much and if you can't acquire that spec without wrenching on the adjuster, it needs to have shims added, so wrenching down on the adjuster, just pushes the ball further and further into the worm gear, crushing the adjuster as well as the do-hickey, castle nut, external threaded thingamajigger. The balls do eggshape too and destroying the wormshaft as a result, would be the death of a truck if the government/API/AIA plan goes all ahead full and new gear boxes became more a priority than rebuilding old, obsolete ones. No worm gears out there that I know of.

---Got some info on all the models from the disc, looking at `65-`74. Problem is, I'd have to make up a sort of collage as none of the PDFs are searchable text.

---Some older models it does refer to using the old method I used to, what Doc Stewart was suggesting, and give no specs at all. On all, basically the specs say no more than 8 lb-in, even if it species to set drag to 1-3 lb-in. I must also mention that the ones that suggest this don't specify rebuilding procedures, just specs and exploded view. I would order a manual/wait on someone with a manual and check all other areas for wear/etc., or adjust with care. Can't say I never took chances before.

Start with the simplest item first - the adjustment bolt on the steering box. You can easily adjust it a bit at a time, take it for a test ride around the block and down the street a bit. A little guess and check and you'll find the adjustment amount that still allows enough center play so it doesn't feel tight at the steering wheel. It's specifically designed to leave a tiny bit of play (when adjusted correctly) with the wheels straight so it'll find its own center and track straight down the highway. You'll probably find that will noticeably improve steering. If there's still slop and bad tracking/alignment then go through all the other suggested culprits.

When I bought my '72 the steering was sloppy as hell and likely had never been adjusted to compensate for 38 years of wear. The seller told me the usual "urban legend" that Scouts are "just like tractors on the road and you can't expect good steering response or tracking on the highway." That's BS and don't believe it. I paid for my Scout, drove it around the corner, got my wrench on the steering box, did a few adjust-guess-test drive-adjust again and it was great! No, it didn't become a BMW but it steers and drives excellent, little to no "slop" and tracks straight as an arrow on the highway. I will note that I was fortunate the rest of the steering system, alignment, etc was all in excellent shape so that also made my sloppy steering a simple fix.

My Scout II dis not steer well until Jeff Ismail did a cut and turn to get some caster in it and added a 'straight steer' between the frame rails.